To Rede or Not To Rede?

[Lady Motevia]

Lol Glen, you're hilarious.

Everyone is going to believe what they wish to believe. I just don't see karma the same way as a lot of other people do. I'm not the type to read something and automatically say "that makes sense to me". I look at every possible angle and if it doesn't bode well with me, I toss it out. I guess that's why I don't belong to any tradition. I've never studied under a coven, but that's not because I haven't found any or even been invited. There have been a few times now where I've joined a coven and then quit because they treated the Wiccan Rede as a dogma (a dogma of karma, if you will ). As I said before, just because I don't practice magick with the Wiccan Rede or a belief in karma doesn't mean that I don't have my own ethics, virtues, and morals. I don't go around affecting someone's free will, but if someone harms me I WILL use what I know to send it right back to them. If I were to harm someone for no reason, I would expect that they would do something on their end to harm me right back. That's not karma, that's just cause and effect and they would have every right to do it. I don't go around killing and eating children because I believe that if I do, some invisible force is going to come back around and bite my ass (besides the fact that I really don't want to because that's gross). I treat people with the same respect that I would expect them to treat me. I don't want someone to hurt my child, so I don't hurt theirs. However, if someone DOES hurt my child, I will act first (with any tool I have- including magick) and ask questions later. Whether or not some other religion follows karma doesn't matter to me. I guess I'm more spiritual than I am religious.

Anyway, I'm really enjoying this discussion, but I think we may have scared everyone off.

[firemoonw]

Amber you did not scare me off I though your discussion was very good when you can bring your feeling out your virtues and morals are in the right place and you no in your heart that you have bin trueful you are a true pagan and I respect you for that. Love Firemoonw :-)

[rain]

"Not everything is so cut and dry as to "this is right and this is wrong". We don't know who else might be effected by our actions or inactions. So does that mean we should cower in fear and refuse to cast spells that will enhance our lives, all because someone somewhere will feel the effects of our spells- even if cast for good intentions?"
This can be an argument in any spiritual practice. To bring things to a more elementary level for a moment: does anybody remember the "Friends" episode about Phoebe only doing good things because she's selfish (it makes HER feel good to help others, therefore her motivations are for personal gain) and therefore isn't really helping anybody but herself? This is very similar to me. And I say, with all due respect, who cares? The truth is, in my opinion, we all have selfish motivations for our actions at least part of the time. If our actions are benefiting others , that's ok. And I do try to adhere to the Wiccan Rede, if as nothing more than a reminder of the golden rule. When you look at faiths across the board - excepting anything dark/satanic which are meant to intentionally do harm, of course - the major religions of the world all have some version of the golden rule. To me, this supports the idea that in all probability they all derived from some sort of (for lack of a better word) Parent belief system? And as people spread around this vast world, developing ties to the land in their various regions, tying beliefs into political systems and economic systems, all of these things sway the spiritual path of a people as a group. As politics & economics exert their forces on spirituality, we see changes in spirituality that coincide with changes in economic and political unrest. Can't have these crazy women running things??? Call em witches and burn them. Can't have a "sub" group running our economics??? Open some concentration camps. (AND NO, NO, NO, I AM NOT SUPPORTING THESE THINGS) I am saying that historically, you cannot get a full picture of any religion or spiritual system without also looking at the socioeconomic & political factors. This is true now too. We are seeing a major divide among our country politically and religiously. I am dealing with it at home even. We are a country divided by socioeconomic status that is driving some groups to cling even more fervently to a strict set of beliefs and another group to look at an even bigger picture to try to find room for everybody to be in the family portrait, so to speak.
And what does this have to do with our ethics? Only everything. The ethos of religion or spiritual path is governed not only by the individual but by the political and economic environments surrounding them. Do we stand up for ourselves? Do we relent, feeling we’ve already been defeated? I would purport that these are based not only on our individual belief’s but also on how we, assess our current situation. Do we have a roof over our head and a loaf of bread on the table? Or are we wondering where there next meal will come from and hoping for good weather since the sky is our roof? And I’m going to stop there before I get even more off topic and go on a socialistic rant lol.
I do hope I have not offended anybody. I just tend to believe that almost nothing is black and white and experience has taught me that even when I thought most things were (black and white, all or none) I went on only to be proved that everything is truly relative.