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Post by habibidancer on Jul 16, 2011 13:48:36 GMT -5
Since our meeting tomorrow is going to discuss magic as one of it's topics, I thought I'd post this link to an article on magic. I want to post it here because I know some folks aren't going to make it to the meeting and I want them included in discussing this if they want to participate. Actually, this sort of discussion does not have to pertain to Wicca only... many non-wiccan's practice magic on a regular basis so now I wonder if perhaps there should be a forum topic that is devoted to magic in general not just wiccan/witch magic? Anyway, here's the article. www.patheos.com/community/paganportal/2011/07/16/magic-works/What I find interesting is that this article makes a great deal of sense but hasn't been the way I've practiced magic(k) as a general rule. Which is why I'm interested in starting a conversation about it.  Both here and in our meeting. Before I had told a friend of mine that I had left the coven I was in, she said something that gave me a lot to think about. She said "covens are for making magick, celebrating the Sabbats is for the family." Lets discuss! |
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Post by lorifiya on Jul 16, 2011 14:01:03 GMT -5
That truely is an interesting point she brought up.
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Post by Lady Motevia on Jul 16, 2011 14:11:21 GMT -5
I can definitely see this person's views on how magic(k) comes from the person, but in the coven I just joined, we've learned that power should come from our environment- and not directly from ourselves. That being said, I really think this person's attitude about the Wiccan and Pagan community seems quite negative. Also, I do not like how they compared God/dess invocation in a spell to asking "Queen Elizabeth to scrub your toilet." Magickal practitioners have called upon the Gods of ever pantheon to bless the outcome of a spell. It's NOT asking the Gods to actually DO the spell for the person. There's a BIG difference. Also, looking at his responses to other people's comments, I'm not 100% sure he knows exactly what he's talking about in order to tell other people the right and wrong ways to practice magick. But that's just my opinion. Personally, I would not accept any magick lessons from this person.
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Post by Lady Motevia on Jul 16, 2011 14:13:44 GMT -5
Also, I know that the makeup of this forum is somewhat flawed, but I'm trying to fix it. There are many different ways of magick and I'm trying to split it up into those different forms (like the board on Shamanism). Which now reminds me that I should create a board on the Kabbalah.
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Post by habibidancer on Jul 16, 2011 15:34:54 GMT -5
I can definitely see this person's views on how magic(k) comes from the person, but in the coven I just joined, we've learned that power should come from our environment- and not directly from ourselves. Hmm... not sure I agree 100% there... or wait, rather I should say, the energy I use is not 100% from ME, not my internal energy that is. But the energy is RAISED by me. Some is raised by tapping into earth and the universe, some is raised by my physical or mental actions and is usually building up inside me. That energy (from outside of me and internally) is combined (internally and externally) and directed towards the goal. NEVER have I sent all the energy towards that goal. There's always some left, more than what I need to function, so at the end of a working there is always the necessity for me (according to the tradition I was taught) to ground the excess energy. I think this may be where the issue of working with the energy of others comes into play. Even if you are not sending out your own personal internal energy, the energy you work with still passes through your "energy hands" and is therefore flavored by you. This is where it might be difficult to work with someone in a magickal circle because there may be incompatibility. Probably why you don't see a thousand covens in the QC, because meshing a half dozen or more people energetically is HARD. Also, I do not like how they compared God/dess invocation in a spell to asking "Queen Elizabeth to scrub your toilet." Magickal practitioners have called upon the Gods of ever pantheon to bless the outcome of a spell. It's NOT asking the Gods to actually DO the spell for the person. There's a BIG difference. I agree there is a big difference. I think she doesn't understand what "invoke" means, and is using it instead of "summon". It would be disrespectful in my mind to summon (aka demand) a Deity's participation/blessing of a spell or magickal working. But the dictionary's definition of invoke is to call upon in earnest desire (such as in prayer). It seems perfectly appropriate to me to request or invoke a Deity's blessing of my workings. I hadn't looked at who the author was when I first read it, but Star Foster is a gal... and she appears to be very prolific in her writings online (what some of my friends not-so-jokingly refer to as a BNP or "big name pagan" hahaha!) But just because she is prolific and vocal about the way she does things does not make her correct. Or at least not correct for everyone. She's correct for herself if it works well for her. I agree with one of the commenters that she should not be using phraseology intended to "scare the fairy dust" out of people. Personally, I would not accept any magick lessons from this person. Agreed! But then, I'm extremely picky about who I'd take lessons from anyway. (sounds like you too) When I helped teach wicca 101 classes, we always said "listen to your inner bell", which basically means if you aren't comfortable with what someone is trying to teach/say then listen to yourself. Question and ask for clarifications. Still not feeling ok with it? move on. But there were some points I felt were worth considering. I am comfortable enough with my own power to be able to read something I don't 100% agree with and take out the parts that are worth considering separately from the parts I don't agree with. For example: * Working with energy regularly is important.Yes, definitely! 100% agree here. You can't walk all day if you don't walk at all. * Before magic, chop wood/carry water. After magic, chop wood/carry water.Yes, definitely! 100% agree here. What's the point of making magick to get a job if you don't put in applications for work? I see WAY too many people throwing around spells and then not ACTING IN ACCORD or doing the mundane work to make the magick work. If you do magick to get a job and then sit on your butt watching tv, the Gods/Universe will stop taking you seriously and stop blessing your workings. Traditional magical teachings have a lot of value.Yes, definitely! You don't have to join a coven to learn traditional magical teachings. (at least in my book you don't have to) But the traditional stuff works, and its a good idea to learn it. Especially before you start experimenting. Learn the traditional ways so that when you start doing it a different way, you'll know why it did or didn't work. Focusing on spiritual growth, values, community and character builds magical muscles you didn’t know you had. Think “wax on/wax off” from The Karate Kid. Working spells is a slow way to become an adept. Focusing on the spiritual, on your Will, on The Great Work, or whatever your tradition calls the ongoing spiritual transformation you are involved in, is the best way to become a better magician. You are the ultimate magical instrument, so being the best you can be is magically important.This I think is the most valuable thing she said in her whole article. You can work all the magick you want, but if you aren't working on spiritual growth, aren't working on your baggage, if you aren't working out your issues and working to become the best you can be in all things, eventually the Gods/Universe might not be as supportive of your workings because your not doing the OTHER work they have been trying to give you. This I know from personal experience. I'm not saying we have to work toward perfection of mind/body/spirit!!! Just that we have to work on ourselves to be better. It makes us better magickal workers, it makes us better witches/wiccans/pagans. |
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Post by habibidancer on Jul 16, 2011 15:46:34 GMT -5
Also, I know that the makeup of this forum is somewhat flawed, but I'm trying to fix it. There are many different ways of magick and I'm trying to split it up into those different forms (like the board on Shamanism). Which now reminds me that I should create a board on the Kabbalah. oh heck, I think you are doing fabulous!!! its hard to think of everything right? I'm hoping the membership grows and as it grows the board will evolve to meet everyone's needs. We don't need forums for every little thing... and I'm all good with how you think it will work best. |
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Post by Lady Motevia on Jul 16, 2011 20:44:34 GMT -5
Hmm... not sure I agree 100% there... or wait, rather I should say, the energy I use is not 100% from ME, not my internal energy that is. But the energy is RAISED by me. Some is raised by tapping into earth and the universe, some is raised by my physical or mental actions and is usually building up inside me. That energy (from outside of me and internally) is combined (internally and externally) and directed towards the goal. NEVER have I sent all the energy towards that goal. There's always some left, more than what I need to function, so at the end of a working there is always the necessity for me (according to the tradition I was taught) to ground the excess energy. This is actually what I meant. I guess I should have been a little more clear. The energy is projected by us, yes, but using your energy instead of what's around you can make you very ill and throw off your energy balance with the chakras. Directing the energy is different than being the sole provider of said energy. For instance, when using Reiki or polarity therapy (or any other energy work for that matter), a person does not use their personal energy to create change. The energy comes from around us (thus the term "Universal Life Energy" that Reiki means). It's the same thing with magick. This author was talking about not at all using what's provided by the Earth. That may work for her, but I think it's wrong for her to tell other people that it's the correct way to do magick. After being depleted of their own energy stores, no one will want to use magick again. I hadn't looked at who the author was when I first read it, but Star Foster is a gal... ... I agree with one of the commenters that she should not be using phraseology intended to "scare the fairy dust" out of people. I actually got confused reading the comments on the page, so I thought that someone who had replied to another comment had been the original author. My bad.  And I also agree that she picked some incorrect phrasing while discussing her intention to scare people like that. Doesn't seem very professional to me. Agreed! But then, I'm extremely picky about who I'd take lessons from anyway. (sounds like you too) Yes, yes I am. As for everything else you said, yes I agree as well. I kind of figured that since I didn't mention it one could assume that I agreed with everything else she said. That being said, the things that I do not agree with threw me off. She may know some things about magick, but I don't think she should be posting blogs like she knows everything. I got some really bad vibes from reading this post, is all. And for the record, I do speak to my cat frequently AND I speak to the faeries. Also, candle magick DOES work and fae magick is powerful. That's all I have to say about that! ;D |
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Post by habibidancer on Jul 16, 2011 21:28:54 GMT -5
*snicker* yeah, based on her initial paragraphs, she would probably define me as a woo woo witch as I talk to my cats too! Though the cat I might have considered a familiar passed away a few years ago. I talk to just about everything, sentient or not. I would normally say that it just seems respectful but the things I say to my computer are not always respectful.  |
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Post by Lady Motevia on Jul 17, 2011 0:06:47 GMT -5
Rofl! |
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Post by firemoonw on Jul 21, 2011 19:00:51 GMT -5
I though I was comeing to make a good statement but now after reading your statement from Lady Motevia and Habibidance. I don't think I could ad amy more point of interest to their comment that they have not cover all ready you gal have done a great job.
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Both here and in our meeting.
And I also agree that she picked some incorrect phrasing while discussing her intention to scare people like that. Doesn't seem very professional to me.